POLL: Continuing Custom Playbooks?

So we've actually got 14 weeks experience with custom playbooks and now its time to vote on the future of them for next season. To help with the decision I put together a spreadsheet comparing offensive yards per game between M17 Season 2 (no CPBs) and 3 (CPBs allowed).
Some basic info on the stats:
- 15 teams used CPBs (Marked with an X in Column F "CPB")
- 8 teams increased offense by 20 yards per game (Marked red in the spreadsheet)
- 2 actually decreased by 20 ypg (Marked blue)
- 5 stayed within 20ypg of their previous season (Marked yellow)
- The average was a 20 ypg increase per team

The control was not as good as it could have been since so many coaches quit between the end of Season 2 and middle of Season 3 leading to many more CPU games. In Column G "Notes" I commented where teams were CPU to help differentiate.

I'll just leave it at that and let you come to your own conclusions. Please vote in the poll as soon as you can so we can make a decision for next season. Also, if the majority decides to keep CPBs next season then we will have another poll regarding allowing defensive CPBs too.

Here is the link to the spreadsheet, if you have trouble accessing it please let me know:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nw4-2WxzVhcet6DX7SkYC3TXV6oRRK2DRIhFaUqoFBo/edit?usp=sharing

@brza37 interesting reading. 

Firstly I have voted

Secondly on your sheet I have been marked as using custom playbook - this is incorrect. I can tell all SML members my "increase" comes from Tannerhill moving to the bench and me replacing him with a QB that has eyes and can actually throw 

Im not sure if open discussion is encouraged so I'll hold comments for now

Bartell wrote:@brza37 interesting reading. 

Firstly I have voted

Secondly on your sheet I have been marked as using custom playbook - this is incorrect. I can tell all SML members my "increase" comes from Tannerhill moving to the bench and me replacing him with a QB that has eyes and can actually throw 

Im not sure if open discussion is encouraged so I'll hold comments for now

Oops, sorry I was making the list last night by looking at the playbook forum and my eyes wandered into the Twitter news. Was distracted by the Phins News reporter avatar and figured that must be a custom job
I've updated accordingly.

brza37 wrote:Oops, sorry I was making the list last night by looking at the playbook forum and my eyes wandered into the Twitter news. Was distracted by the Phins News reporter avatar and figured that must be a custom job
I've updated accordingly.

Haha nope all natural in Miami   its easy to become distracted though

Totally on the fence with this one. I don't use them as I prefer to try and use the teams original scheme. I appreciate others like to use them and don't want to crash that party. As there are rules on playcalling, they can help limit the design/overuse of a CP but if you use them we could implement a rule saying CP must be submitted to commissioners for review before the end of preseason and not changed without permission? Means extra work for you guys though.


Edit: Just read the CP rules thread, so scratch what I said above, already in place. Is there are correlation between Good, Average and Below Average Users and CPs? I.e. are us newbies less likely to use them and suffer because we're not as good or because we don't use them?

Geodude wrote:Totally on the fence with this one. I don't use them as I prefer to try and use the teams original scheme. I appreciate others like to use them and don't want to crash that party. As there are rules on playcalling, they can help limit the design/overuse of a CP but if you use them we could implement a rule saying CP must be submitted to commissioners for review before the end of preseason and not changed without permission? Means extra work for you guys though.


Edit: Just read the CP rules thread, so scratch what I said above, already in place. Is there are correlation between Good, Average and Below Average Users and CPs? I.e. are us newbies less likely to use them and suffer because we're not as good or because we don't use them?

Hey mate,

if you are new to cpb it wont be a problem - I uploaded a video to explain how to create a cpb for our leagues and how to upload it. Also I offer you personal help if you don't know how to choose the plays for the audibles or need general advice. Just write me a PM and I promise you will never use a normal PB again

Hey Gentlemen,

If you voted no, I would like to hear why. We put a lot of work in this whole process and maybe you can give us feedback how to make it work for you in the future. Thanks guys

MeisterEder69 wrote:Hey Gentlemen,

If you voted no, I would like to hear why. We put a lot of work in this whole process and maybe you can give us feedback how to make it work for you in the future. Thanks guys

I tried not too as there was no other posts and I didn't want to post first lol

I appreciate all the time and effort you and the commissioners put into this and this is why I was so nervous commenting. 

From my experience (as I must must stress its just my view and what I have experienced this season) I think I have played 6 or 7 out of 16 games against people using CPB and this excludes preseason (preaseason was 1 game and 1 person using CPB) I found the games against the guys using CPB very difficult. There were times I felt ok then boom so WR running in yards of space and boom, I have never felt so cut open as I did this season, it seemed tougher than my first ever season in all honesty. My game against @MeisterEdere69 was a real low point, I acknowledge some "Madden BS" but lets be fair I was ripped in every play I chose. I can sit and tell you how bad most of the games versus CPB were as I seem to still be hurting. From what I experienced there were games when I was playing and doing "ok" then a play or two that absolutely rips and the game has changed. 

Prior to this season I cant recall seeing WR/TE etc in sometimes oceans of space like that and defensively not been able to do a thing about it. I dont get how they can be as open to a point where there are no receivers close to stop/swat/tackle. I guess this wont just be me - from the stats previously posted some of the stronger players in the league have increased average yardage by 40+ yards if I recall correctly. 

I was vocal over the trial been too long previously however the amount of games I've had the trial was probably a decent length. I wont lie I've struggled with Miami - so maybe some of this is mine and my teams ability level that are to blame. I think with that in mind I'd openly suggest keeping the trial open for next season. Then as a league we have played 2 full seasons using the CPB will likely stay but then you've got long enough period to have assessed. Then from M18 the commissioners introduce this as the standard rule or then its closed off and CPB never return

I hope I've articulated my answer correctly - if it doesn't help or you want to check on something @meistereder69 please drop me a PM or PSN

@Bartell, yes, you have articulated it well and I understand the gap created by non CPBs and CPB users. I guess it depends on how the CPBs are created as some users might want to create a historic scheme but I imagine for the sake of winning most CPBs would scrap plays that are known Madden Duds and replace them with the known Madden money plays. This becomes a problem as I try to vary my play calling throughout the standard PB, but as a CPB user varies their play call, they're all great plays still.

Again, down to how the user created the CPB.

@MeisterEder69 thanks for the offer! I have created them in the past but as I traditionally played offline CFM never had a strong need to. I understand the nature of star ratings for Gameplan but I do manual playcalling by formation anyway.

Geodude wrote: I understand the gap created by non CPBs and CPB users. 

Oh no its not created a gap I'd say extended the gap between me and good Madden players lol. Im low level and I'd happily admit this so Im not saying "oh well if we didnt have CPB I would have won all my games" or anything like that. The gap between player and team ability will always be present for sure. I think the CPB have potential to rip a team in 2 and I happened to be on the receiving end a few times last season lol

One thing I'll say from another perspective (defensive) is that it's much more challenging reading and anticipating people's plays since cpbs were brought in. That's good for everyone in the league I reckon 

After long thought I have answered with "No", mainly because of the following reason.

Each Madden has some "money plays" - plays which work just better than other plays. That could be sometimes just a bit better, but sometimes to a degree it's not not defendable. If you are a good player, you know exactly what works in the current Madden version and normally you add exactly these plays to your PB (if it's not in there). Result is, that every team uses more or less the same playbook.

I know, Madden does a horrible job of showing different styles of offense, so more or less every offense looks the same in general. If you can add plays, then there are really no differences.

That said, I could live with both ways at the end. I tried a bit with custom playbooks before, but never really got used to it and used the standard ones again. But I'm sure I can use them if the decision is for "Yes".

I did not follow the discussion to introduce them, so it may make sense to hear some arguments for the custom playbook. Maybe some owners think differently about it then?

I like what ParaAUT said above. I have always believed that CPB's would be interesting to try, but the bottom line will always be the same until EA drastically change their game, which, to be fair, hasn't changed anywhere near enough over the last 5 years.

The bottom line has, unfortunately, confirmed fears that the 'better plays' in Madden appear a lot more. What's wrong with that if everyone can use them? - and it's a fair question, but, not everyone is at the same level of play - and therein lies the main issue with CPB's. The gap has increased between the top guys and the not so good guys. 

The whole point of CFM is enjoyment, and the possibility of a trip to the playoffs and once there, who knows. Alas, with CPB's that hope has diminished a tad.

MeisterEder has done a great job and put a phenomenal amount of work into creating the CPB option and we all owe him a considerable debt of gratitude, and i feel sorry for him that CPB's will likely be voted out. But, i believe it will be the right thing for the league.

I understand the arguments against it but my nature is telling me why are we downgrading our standards instead of trying to help the lower players get better and raise their standards?
That was my hope for when I started writing strategy tips. On another note maybe I'm just looking at it to seriously I have voted yes as this gives me a better chance against the players that are ahead of me because I can mix in a bit more things that way.Because it felt before that your hands were tied against the top guys in this league as you ran out of stuff that actually worked against them. when the lower players hit that plateau they will understand what I'm about at this point.

Anyway no hating just sharing my thoughts and its all cool which ever way this goes.

after looking at the stats though... it is obvious that @meisterder69 and @xxeternalxx are cheating

Good point Zill 

I'm happy to try this coming season and do a CPB to balance the view of a season without then a season with.

hey guys ,

thanks for all your quick responses.

Every point you bring up is valid. And I'm happy that you could make very clear which are the main problems. I try to give a short summary of my experiences .

"Better Plays" - bartell and bish
I think this point is true, but not that onesided as you guys think. In madden as in real football there always are plays that work better then others. I know that in madden some plays have huge speed bursts when players do their cuts or run plays that have a little better blocking schemes. If you take my PB I think there are 2 plays with a speed cut. an I don't play them more often then the others. the main reason why my offense worked so much better then last season is not because I packed my PB with cheeseplays. I wasn't even on youtube to find out what plays are killer. I only scrolled through the plays and looked for plays that should be easy to read. Easy Progressions and easy block schemes. I packed every formations with plays so I can beat any defensive scheme with it. And the audibles help me to adjust to what the defence shows me. I cant allways read what your opponent is doing but the also doesn't know what you are doing ( what he does with a normal PB by watching only your last game )   

When you don't have this option of choosing your style to play, every year the good players do the same thing. After trying 2-5 Playbooks in pre-season, they go to practice mode or you tube and looking for Route-adjustments and play combos, that will work 80 percent of the time. For me, it doesn't make fun but if you want to be on top you have to do it.

What I want to say is you have three options in madden:

- put no effort in madden -> you will never get to the playoffs
- put a decent amount of effort in a CPB -> Playoffs or SB is possible
- put a massive amount of effort in the Standard PB -> Playoffs are possible -> and SB only if you can play the defense like Warrior or eternal.


Even eternal admits that for him it is a challenge to play against CPB´s.

Also that the top players become faster better then the others is no surprise to me but, you guys who never played cpb´s have soo much potential.

Give us another season with CPB´s and write me when im online. believe with a few tipps and only a little work on your playcalling you can really get on high level pretty quickly.

@MeisterEder69
Thanks for the insight. When you say, put no effort into Madden, is this just the CPB or is this also scouting, progression and practicing? I.e. Only people with CPB will generally/consistently make the playoffs or just good effort all around and make the playoffs.

I understand what you're saying about playing elite defense like the top players in our league. I've never fully practiced using the Mike/MLB on most plays and noticed my recent opponent @zill_kills used him really well to shut down my routes (TE Corner & post- threw 2 INTs on these routes, WR Drag, In & quick In, HB dump off) that are usually open against CPU, therefore I appreciate that it isn't only about the CPB but coverage skills on easy routes.

I totally get your point @meistereder69 and in relation to practice I think from when I first started to now I'm playing and putting in more time than ever this isn't just my thoughts I've had a few players tell me thst I've improved

If CPB are the step to the next level then that's something I need to invest time in creating. I didn't have chance before but if we extend to next season then without doubt I will. 

I do fear that process and I know your video would help but I think what I'd need to do is watch the video a few times again, develop the CPB and speak to you about the CPB to ensure its valid and workable. At that point I can use that in my practice drills and get used to it 

I'd love to hear the thoughts of others in the league and the commissioners about extending this to next season and see how the season plays out

When creating a cpb the main thing is to imagine where and how you will call the plays and what the play is meant to do. Think about situations in a game where you thought if only I had a play that would do x than i would of had those 5 yards. so create cpb to that thinking.

1-4 use these as audibles.

1. in every formation find plays that give you 10yds on average
2. in every formation find plays that give you 5yds
3. in every formation find plays that give you 1-5 yds
4. in every formation find plays that are worth using in the redzone.
5. find run plays that chew the clock insert them by formation and remember them
6. find pass plays for that get you going quickly if you are down big and remember them
7. LEARN HOW TO PLAY DEFFENCE because it does not matter how good you offence is without D we all get our butts kicked. look at my week 17 game for proof

@zill_kills I forgot to turn on twitch archiving so that game is lost to the nether. But yes, my game against you essentially came down to you being better at defense and me not learning to adapt my offense to that. Next season is training for me and M18 is hopefully where I'll improve.

Edit: Oops it was @davidkinghun who kicked my arse this week, with the MLB....

Geodude wrote:@MeisterEder69
Thanks for the insight. When you say, put no effort into Madden, is this just the CPB or is this also scouting, progression and practicing? I.e. Only people with CPB will generally/consistently make the playoffs or just good effort all around and make the playoffs.

With my point I meant only the effort you put in your skills on the field an playcalling.

The CPB is only a tool for those who want to play better and diversify their playcalling from the other players. You can create a gameplan that suits your playcalling, without your opponent knowing pre-snap what you are doing.
Otherwise you have to play the same top 3 playbooks, with the same top plays and the same top recommended adjustments youtoube will tell you....like everybody else - And guess what, on youtube you find also the counter plays on defense. Its only the question if those guys who don't have the time to create a CPB, will have the time to watch all videos and get their plays set up in time and train their defence skills to be able to beat the well known SB-contenders. I doubt this is going to happen.

I was skeptical at first too but after going through the process of making a CPB I believe that the restrictions we have won't allow anyone to create a whole playbook of "money plays" since you can only add 1 formation and 1 set or 2 sets and no formation changes. Money plays are dispersed over a variety of sets that just aren't in any one base playbook so its near impossible to get a high number of them.

I also think that there has actually been more variety in plays this past season with CPBs than in season 2 with stock playbooks. It seemed everyone was using Pitt, NO or ARZ playbooks that season. And its something that seems to happen every year by season 3 with mostly everyone choosing one of 4 stock playbooks. With CPBs, I feared that it would be worse and people would all start using the same base and added sets to get the best money plays but during the trial it didn't seem that way to me.

Where the CPB can help lesser players compete with the top guys is with audibles, in my opinion. If you play enough Madden you know what options a person has when they come out in certain sets. Basically, in stock playbooks you can audible to slants/stick, inside zone, four verts and a playaction play that usually has long developing route-combos. Based off of that the top guys aim to defend the most dangerous play out of the set you are in, or one they see you have called often in previous games. Then if your QB calls an audible they know it will be one of the four options listed above or a flipped run.
 - If you have an advantage in the box they know you are running IZ and will slant their line in
- If they have numbers in the box and are showing off-coverage or man coverage 0-high safeties they know you are going with slants or stick
- If they have numbers in the box and are showing press coverage with 2 or 1 high safeties then you are probably going 4 verts or a long developing PA so they choose overtop coverage, pass commit (with possibly an outside blitz hot-route) and user the middle
Basically, if you call an audible in a stock playbook the top guys know how to stop you. If you don't call an audible they probably do too based on your tendencies or what they know is dangerous out of certain playbooks.

With CPBs all you have to do is change your audibles and you can eliminate this advantage that the top players have. On the other hand, this works both ways so its harder for anyone to predict what the top players audible to as well.

The statistics say the top 3 teams benefited the most from CPBs but I think that may have had more to do with the widening ratings gap due to XP for awards and coach success. This is not a knock on ETs skills because he definitely has them and the knowledge to build a better CPB than most, but running for 2000+ yards at 10 ypc with a 97 SPD "powerback" behind a full line of guys rated 90+ in RBK, PBK, IBL is an easy feat that he could have done with any stock playbook as well, just based on ratings and his stick skills. I don't know how many times I've come out in the perfect play and knew where he was running but he broke tackles and/or had perfect blocking and trotted onto a 70 yd TD anyway. So I think the statistics are somewhat misleading in that regard. I think you can learn more from looking at the improvement of average teams with CPBs like the Saints, Jets and Texans.

In my opinion, where the top guys really separate themselves is on defense and giving everyone a chance to improve their offense with custom audibles is a chance to help improve competition. For that reason I voted yes to continuing with CPBs next season but I can understand if the majority is still skeptical and wants to go back to just using stock PBs. In my opinion, that won't help improve competition though. But as stated before this is an issue that the league should decide and if the majority says we end the CPB experiment then thats what we will do.

I have changed my vote to a Yes

The main reason is what I said before I'd really like to see what I can achieve over a season with CPB for me. I started looking at a CPB this week and then hit questions which I sent to @meistereder69 lol who has kindly agreed to help me so maybe within a week I  will have my CPB to practice with ready for season 22. 

I wont lie I have been vocal against CPB from the off but I think if I have the experience of a season using it I may have a different view. I'd like at least the chance to try it out in Season 22